Grant sat down with Emin Gün Sirer, the founder of Ava Labs, to chat about how the Avalanche and AVAX ecosystems are scaling. The avalanche subnet architecture is extremely impressive when it comes to bespoke blockchain deployment for any use case. Recently we have seen a wide range of applications such as JP Morgan tokenizing funds on their on Subnet, Shrapnel and Off The Grid releasing their gaming subnets and even Hubble Protocol a perpetual exchange DEX that uses USDC to settle trades. With the proliferation of L2s and a lot of pushback around their composability, security risk i.e. multi-sig contracts and expensive overheads, Avalanche subnets are certainly one to watch over the coming years. In this episode, the pair chatted about Emin's early days pre-Bitcoin whitepaper, where he was developing distributed systems to enable the permissionless transfer of digital assets. It is interesting to hear how Emin's journey has led him to be in the position he is now.